2020: That’s a wrap! Looking ahead to 2021

The world is a very different place as we come to the end of 2020 than it was at the start. The pandemic has had a significant effect on global economies and has been devastating for certain sectors.

For us, 2020 was only our second full year of trading since we launched in September 2018, so, even in the best of times, this year would have been a tough year for a start-up still finding its feet in the dizzyingly competitive world of R&D tax claims provision.

In reality, this year has been an incredibly busy one for us – during the second half of the year we ramped up our new customer acquisition, largely through increased marketing activity including the launch of our webinar series. The webinars themselves proved to be a huge success and we surprised ourselves with audiences regularly exceeding 100. Of course, this success could well have been a direct effect of the pandemic – it’s certainly true that accountants have recognised the need for additional capital for their clients in this period and that, in itself, is likely to have driven them to proactively look for new solutions and could be what’s driven them to our door!

New Employees Hired in 2020

During the year we have continued to build the team and welcomed first Sandy and then Cristina to the dev team, and Markos to marketing. In his first few months with us as an intern, Markos was based from his family home in Cyprus and at the same time our Technical Director, Rick, moved out to the Netherlands so we took on a distinct international flavour during the summer as, along with the rest of the world, we embraced remote working across the team.

In the third quarter,  we released ‘WhisperClaims 2.0’, our new user interface – this was a key moment for us as it was the biggest change to the system since we first launched – we held our breath on “go live” day, and all went well – feedback was fantastic and we look forward to some significant new features next year.

WhisperClaims 2.0 Screenshot

All of that growth has seen us hit several milestones as we near the end of the year: in early December we are pleased to have recruited our 100th subscriber firm and in just the last few days we broke through the £100m barrier!

That’s £100m of eligible R&D spend having been identified by our customers using the WhisperClaims app – quite a milestone!

AccountingExcellence Award Win

And of course we topped off 2020 with a surprise (to us at least!) win at the Accounting Excellence Awards in the “Non-Accounting Cloud  or Banking App” category. We’ve managed to win an award for every year we’ve been in business so far – our email footers are looking really busy!

As we round out the year, we find ourselves saying goodbye to one of our co-Founders – Richard is leaving us to start another new venture focusing on delivering online training and consultancy. He’ll be a WhisperClaims user and we’ll continue to work closely together in future – we wish him well with his exciting new plans.

What will 2021 bring?

 

What will 2021 bring?

As I write this, we are about to make two new appointments and welcome new team members to sales and development – both of which will help us create more capacity to deal with our continued growth.

At the same time, we are in the middle of building a new website and have been working on a number of new product features that will all come to fruition in 2021.

We’ll be continuing to build out the WhisperClaims community and one of our goals is to double the number of accountants using our software in the 21/22 financial year.

We look forward to an exciting New Year and, like many, hope that we can put the pandemic behind us and continue to enjoy building the WhisperClaims business so that more and more SMEs can be supported by their accountants during what will, hopefully, be a post-covid recovery year.

Happy New Year!

Mike Dean
Managing Director


We’ll be taking a short break over the festive period

Check out our opening and closing times and how to contact us here.

The impact of COVID-19 on the R&D tax scheme

We’ve published a number of blogs on the technical impacts of Covid on the R&D tax scheme during the year.  Specific areas include things like the treatment of CBILs and BBLSs (both of which are considered State Aid by the way, so need treating appropriately), and the treatment of costs for furloughed staff.

As well as issuing guidance on those technical impacts on the scheme, throughout this very challenging period HMRC have tried to keep the market updated on impacts on processing times and how companies might deal with, for example, late submissions.

The concern from businesses and from their accountants over potential delays in payments of R&D claims is understandable. Companies who have been negatively impacted by the crisis need access to additional funds more than ever so where an R&D claim is an important part of fulfilling their short-term capital requirements, delayed payments could be disastrous.

HMRC have clearly recognised this and are maintaining their target of processing 95% of R&D claims within 28 days of being filed. In reality though, anecdotal evidence from our users suggests turnaround times of 7 working days in many instances so this has clearly been good news. Also, if businesses are experiencing operational difficulties due to the coronavirus that will prevent them from filling an R&D claim on time, then HMRC have advised they will be sympathetic to this. They will consider giving extensions to claims that are filed late providing they meet certain criteria—if employees who are key to the R&D claim preparation were absent or ill due to the coronavirus in the period leading up to the claim deadline, for example, then HMRC may grant an extension if it’s required.

But what about the R&D tax market? How has that been affected?

The Market for R&D Tax Credits

In many respects it’s too early to say. HMRC publish detailed statistics on the scheme every September, but this only covers data up to the end of the previous tax year and even then that data isn’t particularly useful as, of course, claimants can go back two full years to make a claim – so the most accurate data is always essentially two years out of date. This means that the September 2020 report is little use in helping us figure out what’s happened across the summer.

So let’s reflect instead on our own experience and the observations we’ve been able to make during the pandemic.

First of all, our world has some noise and factors that might affect our view, simply because of our own growth trajectory. Earlier in 2020 we had made the decision to invest in more sophisticated digital marketing, so the growth we’ve experienced ourselves (which includes three fold growth in monthly customer acquisition during the year) potentially completely masks any growth that may have occurred as a result of Covid-19 driven demand.

However, what we have certainly observed is an increasing interest from accountants, our core customer base, on figuring out ways to help inject capital into their client businesses and R&D tax credits seem to figure highly.

Without doubt, our customers have been demonstrating the following behaviours across the year:

  • An increased focus on figuring how to inject capital into businesses
  • A realisation that, for eligible businesses and projects, R&D tax credits are a great way to bring in this much needed capital
  • Finding ways to access the scheme cost effectively and efficiently has become really important
  • R&D tax credits are being used to help turn around struggling businesses – a couple of our customers have some really pointed examples of this
  • As a direct result of recognising these things, our users have become more adventurous in exploring eligibility across a wider range of sectors

That adventurous approach has driven demand for our course and webinar content, with users hungry to get a deeper understanding of the scheme and particularly the boundaries for eligibility. Demand has been so high that we’ve regularly seen audiences of 100+ on our webinars and we’ve not only been selling out our open courses, but also been approached by firms looking to run in-house tailored programmes to really immerse their staff in the scheme and ensure that the claims they make are fully compliant.

Time will tell but we are confident that when the next set of stats are published next September, they will show a significant step up in the uptake of the scheme amongst SME’s this year, and whilst it won’t be reflected in HMRC’s reporting (they don’t report on the sources of claims), in our view the number of accountants who are actively assisting their clients with R&D tax claims is increasing steadily and we can only see this as a good thing for their firms and for their clients.



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Our story: disrupting the R&D tax relief market

When you start to build a business, it’s inevitable that you’ll have a number of goals in mind. For us, it was a mixture of things, but a core driver was to create something that could push boundaries and had the ability to shake-up and simplify the UK R&D tax relief consultancy market for the better. 

After years of working in R&D tax consultancy, the team and I had observed a vast number of companies being turned away for R&D tax relief consultancy because accountancy firms were unable to process their claims. We made it our mission to resolve this problem.  

Navigating the R&D tax scheme

R&D tax relief was introduced for SMEs in 2000 and extended to large companies from 2002. The scheme is designed to encourage greater R&D spending, leading in turn to greater investment in innovation and is one of the main tenets of UK government business support. The more innovation, the more likely we are to remain competitive as a nation, or so the mantra says, and in the current climate UK businesses need all the help they can get.

Our observation was that many SME’s, especially the ones with smaller potential R&D claims, found it hard to get support to access the scheme. Many didn’t know that they are eligible, and even if they did, the 500 pages of HMRC guidance on the scheme was difficult to navigate!

Consequently, only around 43,000 claims were made under the R&D tax scheme in 2015-16, a tiny proportion of the UK business population and certainly only a small percentage of SME’s with eligible activities.

The landscape now

According to HMRC’s statistics, UK companies spent £31.3 billion on R&D during the 2017/18 financial year. This resulted in support from the Treasury of £4.3 billion, creating an estimated £1 billion in fees for accountants and specialist R&D tax relief consultants.

So, with so much to gain why don’t more accountants support their clients to make claims?

In the last two years, we’ve had the pleasure of personally meeting over 300 accountancy firms and have uncovered a few key issues with their processes:

  • Lack of knowledge of the scheme. It’s seen as a niche tax area, many firms don’t have the knowledge and are fearful of providing poor advice.
  • Lack of knowledge of their clients business or technology. Many accountants will say that they don’t understand technology so are unable to assess their clients potential eligibility for the scheme from that perspective.
  • The return on investment. The market for R&D tax support has grown substantially over the last 10 years or so and is dominated by specialist providers who offer “no win, no fee” contingent fees. Many of them are hugely successful firms that do great for their larger clients, but for whom it isn’t always economically viable to work with smaller claims. 
  • Time consuming. Preparing claims for R&D tax relief without technology can be a time-consuming and difficult process, resulting in a buoyant market for consultants who help companies with their claims. Claims can take weeks or months to prepare through traditional methods, which is expensive for both the consultant and the client.

So what we have is a sector that, certainly from the perspective of the smaller SME, has a couple of structural problems. At one end, we have an army of high quality accountancy professionals who don’t have the knowledge to be able to provide support to their clients in this niche area, and at the other end we have specialist providers whose business model means that they are unable to support smaller claims.

Finding a solution

Given the importance of the scheme and the fact that it is there to provide support to innovation and business growth in the UK economy, it seemed to us that there ought to be a role for technology to play in solving this problem, and thus opening up the scheme to a broader base of businesses.

And so our idea was born – a cloud based platform, easy to use, with all the help and guidance you could need to build your own R&D tax claims. 

The system is white-labelled so any accountant or consultant can use it with their clients without the fear of affecting their brand value. 

It’s also capable of producing all the documentation needed to support an R&D claim within an hour, which enables accountants nationwide to service more clients and scale up operations without recruiting more staff.

Reports at the touch of a button

The most innovative aspect of the solution is our technology’s ability to create comprehensive, detailed reports suitable for submission to HMRC at the touch of a button. 

To prepare a claim, users of our technology are led through a responsive question set, probing all of the key areas of a claim to ensure that the end result is robust and defensible. Users can also invite their clients to sign-in and answer questions.

Unlike other systems that purport to generate reports, our system is capable of doing so without any free text entry – instead using a variety of sliders, multiple choice questions and numerical inputs to collect information about the client and their claim.

From a technical perspective, converting data into naturally written R&D reports was challenging to achieve and no other company has managed to achieve anything close to this level of automation. The time savings are considerable: a process that can weeks or months has now been reduced to an hour.

It’s going well

Since development began in January 2018, our technology has won ‘Best Use of Innovation’ at the UK Business Technology Awards 2018 and the company has won ‘Emerging FinTech Company of the Year’ at the Business Insider Scottish Accountancy & Fintech Awards 2019.

whisperclaims team

In developing WhisperClaims, we have shown that it is possible to digitise a complex form of consultancy that was previously resistant to automation.

Where do we go from here? Scaling, testing, refining & listening to what the market needs. We’ve got plans to recruit two more members of staff over the next 12 months (read more about our team), to grow our UK customer base and to create new features and services to meet demand. It’s going to be an exciting year ahead and a huge thank you needs to be said to our customers and to our massively talented team here at WhisperClaims for helping us to get to where we are.


Image of Mike Dean

Mike is Director of Sales & Marketing at WhisperClaims. He spent the 14 years prior to WhisperClaims as an Interim Director, coach and trainer in SME businesses across multiple sectors. Mike leads on engaging the marketplace and making sure that accountants and consultants are maximising the value of our technology in their businesses. Get in touch to chat to Mike in person.

How technology is starting to impact the R&D tax market – FreeAgent Webinar 27th March 2019

We had the great pleasure of being hosted by our friends over at FreeAgent back in March, where we delivered a webinar on the impacts of technology on the R&D tax market.

Delivered from the in-house studio at their Edinburgh HQ, the webinar attracted an audience of almost 100 accountancy firms from across the UK. The session covered off some of the key stats that we see in the market, the overall growth of the R&D tax scheme and our observations about the direction of technology in this particular area of tax and accounting.

Of course, we also got to talk about our WhisperClaims platform and some of its key features, including the fact that it’s white-labelled and therefore allows our users to maintain their brand presence with their clients (as opposed to farming work out to expensive consultants!), and our capped pricing which means your service will always be competitive and profitable!

The session wrapped up with some great questions, covering areas including:

  • Accountant accreditation to complete R&D claims – is it necessary to register with HMRC or anyone else to be able to complete claims? No, this is an unregulated market
  • How does your system ensure quality service delivery? We have a comprehensive and robust approach to the process of building a claim – user feedback suggests this is much more thorough than the existing, consultant led approach
  • What’s the likely impact of Brexit on the R&D tax scheme? Blimey, we didn’t expect this one! – but it’s interesting to note, at least anecdotally, that recent M&A activity in the R&D consulting sector has been led by overseas firms buying in to the UK – PR around this suggests that the UK market is attractive to international investors because, post-Brexit, tax incentives will continue to be a necessary part of stimulating the economy
  • Does the WhisperClaims system integrate with other accounting platforms? Watch this space!
  • Clarification of our pricing model. Does WhisperClaims address very small claims? Yes, we do! We have a  low capped fee on our reports, so no matter how big your claim, our pricing stays low. For very small claims, we charge a % of eligible expenditure so no matter how small the claim, it will always be worth downloading
  • How much training and scheme awareness is needed to create a claim for a client for the first time? We have a comprehensive on-boarding process. More importantly, post on-boarding, users have access to help within the system, tailored to every question, that offers a short help video, some key pointers and direct links to the relevant HMRC guidance. Additionally, we’re always at the end of the phone to provide help and guidance. So, there’s no need for you to be an “expert” – we’re here to help!
  • Does the system provide guidance on whether a project is eligible, or is that left up to the user to decide? Absolutely it does! Fundamentally, our system has been designed based on many years of experience as consultants in this market – Richard, one of our Founders, was a founder Director in one of the UK’s largest consultancies – and has been designed precisely to address the needs and expectations of HMRC in justifying eligibility

Our FreeAgent host for the morning, Kevin Lord, did a great job of compering the session and making sure we answered all of the questions – we can’t wait to be back for another FreeAgent webinar!

 

 

HMRC’s new portal for submitting R&D claims – here’s what we think

With not much in the way of public fanfare, HMRC recently launched their beta online platform to support the submission of SME R&D claims. As we’re in the R&D software platform business ourselves, you can imagine we had been awaiting this development with bated breath! So, now that it’s broken cover – what does it look like and what’s it for?

Well, our first impressions are that the tool is surprisingly basic and comes with a couple of fairly substantial limitations. The good things first – it allows SMEs to present their R&D claim information directly to HMRC. They can enter the usual costs – employees, connected and unconnected EPWs and subcontractors, software, consumables and costs for clinical trial volunteers. They can also enter a technical description of their projects, covering the baseline state of technology, the advance attempted, and the technical challenges faced on the way.

The big catch is that the portal assumes that the SME knows what they want to claim for – and that’s a big assumption. If you’ve ever been asked to assist with a client’s claim, you know that they usually need help in assessing their SME status, the boundaries of their R&D, and whether their work would even be considered eligible by HMRC. In the new portal, however, there’s not much in-built support to help claimants or agents who are unfamiliar with the scheme to answer these questions. It also doesn’t help companies to calculate whether they’re an SME, or support SMEs who have received grants, or undertaken work as a subcontractor to a Large Company. This means that complex claims with expenditure eligible under the SME and RDEC schemes are essentially not supported at all. That affects a pretty chunky number of companies, particularly within the life sciences and manufacturing sectors.

Maybe these areas will be addressed in the future. In the meantime, we’re confident that WhisperClaims, our award-winning cloud based platform for R&D tax submissions, will continue to prove more useful (and useable) to our accountancy clients, helping them generate significant additional revenues by delivering truly comprehensive R&D support to their clients.

“Tech Start-ups don’t need MD’s”

Great article about our management structure and, well, overall approach to managing our business, published in todays BusinessCloud and written by Tech Journalist and Editor, Mo Aldolou:

https://www.businesscloud.co.uk/news/tech-start-ups-dont-need-mds

2018 UK Business Tech Awards – we won!

When we were first shortlisted for the “Best Use of Innovation” at the UK Business Tech Awards, we were over the moon at being recognised as part of a cohort of eight outstanding shortlisted businesses. The shortlist included a household name with a high profile and an extremely catchy TV advert, and a couple of businesses with significant VC backing.

Imagine how pleased we were on Tuesday night when we were announced as Winners!

A few days later and we’re still reeling from the whole experience. Not because we are surprised to have won, because of course we think we’re awesome, but simply because it’s such a great feeling that peers in the tech sector recognise that what we have achieved with our WhisperClaims app has been a difficult challenge, requiring great levels of technical insight as well as significant domain knowledge in the sector.

Our market reach continues to expand, with users in both the accounting and business consultancy sectors embracing our technology to build new revenues and remove costs from existing processes.  In line with this, our technical team is expanding so that we can continue to embrace innovation, developing new features and refining the user experience whilst thinking about new markets to exploit in the future.

Whilst all of this work continues, we are delighted to just take a moment to enjoy our success.

Here’s to another great year in 2019 – let’s see what we can win next year!

Click here for a Video of Richard & Jen immediately after winning the award – still in a state of shock!

 

 

 

HMRC R&D stats 2018 – what’s new?

It’s that time of year again. All over the country, R&D tax credit advisors and consultants are locking themselves away in darkened rooms, often with a marketing expert sitting alongside, and poring over the latest R&D tax credit statistics from HMRC. Their aim? Breaking the statistics down into nice, neat bitesize chunks to be pumped out into a series of blogs, tweets and posts. It’s thrilling, and we just can’t resist joining them!

Here at WhisperClaims, we might not have a darkened room or even a marketing expert to hand, but we are massive statistics nerds, and boy, are these massive statistics (badoom-tish!).

So, what have we learned from the Research and Development Tax Credits Statistics of September 2018? We could go on about how, if you look at the statistics one way, manufacturing companies are not making enough claims, or about how the number of claims made by Large Companies appears to be stagnating, but we’d rather focus on the good news – more and more companies making R&D tax credit claims.

In financial year 2015-16, 39,765 SMEs made claims for R&D tax credits, an increase of 25% compared to FY 2014-15. For the financial year 2016-17, 37,360 SMEs have already made claims, and this number will continue to increase over the next year as clients reach the deadline for claiming. When we crunch the numbers, we predict that this will reach over 47,000 claims.

What does this mean for the R&D tax credit market? Well, these numbers prove that the growth in R&D tax credit claims comes entirely from the SME market, many of whom are first time claimants making small claims, for whom the traditional consultancy approach just isn’t suitable as processing costs for claims, and ultimately the market price for such services, are simply too high. As this trend continues, consultants and accountants will be coming under increasing pressure to process more claims, for smaller companies, at rock-bottom prices and margin. How can this be done? Given the costs of running a consultancy team, that’s a pretty difficult challenge – but one that WhisperClaims was specifically created to tackle. See what the software does at www.whisperclaims.co.uk – we’re confident that you’ll see the benefits for yourself during a 30-day subscription-free trial!

And if you want to read the full HMRC report, you can find that here

How do you test more R&D tax relief reports than there are grains of sand on Earth?

I don’t know about you, but it’s not often I get to dust off the theory I learned at university and apply it in real life. Recently, however, I had one of those oddly satisfying days when Computing Science gets dragged out of the cupboard and put to work. It started with a conversation with our developers about testing – specifically, what we should be testing and how to go about it.

By way of context, our software helps companies prepare claims for R&D tax relief, and one of its big strengths is that there is no free text entry – all inputs are multiple choice to make it as easy as possible for the user and their advisor. From those selections, the software automatically generates reports in natural, fluent English for customers to submit to HMRC. It’s beautifully simple to use, but the issue at hand was testing whether each combination of inputs yielded an acceptable report. To answer that, the first question we had to ask was ‘How many unique R&D reports can be generated by our app?’

Mmm, like, a lot..?

And this is where maths comes to the rescue! (I know, I don’t get to shout that nearly enough these days…)

Let’s take a question that presents the user with 10 different types of R&D activity and asks them to check off the 5 they’ve done. Mathematically, the number of different ways you can do this is expressed as C(n,r), where n is the number of options and r is how many you can pick. The formula for C(10,5) is:

10! / ( 5! x 5! )  where 10! = 10 x 9 x 8 x 7…and so on.

This is referred to by mathsy people as ’10 choose 5’, or ‘how many ways can I pick 5 things from a set of 10’, and the answer in this case is 252. That would be a pain to test manually, but I guess it could be done within a day or so. However, the problem gets much, much worse when you start to consider multiple questions in combination.

Let’s say our next question contained 45 possible options and you again had to choose 5. This gives you another C(45,5) options, or 1,221,759. Uh oh. Worse, the number of possible outputs by combining these two questions is 307,883,268. Even if we were testing 10,000 combinations a second, it would still take more than 8 hours to test all the permutations!

At this point I knew that the problem was really big, but I couldn’t stop there – out of curiosity, I wanted to know just how big. So, on the back of a (very large) envelope I worked out that for the 50 or questions we use to prepare a claim, our software could generate around 4.25 x 10^35 different R&D reports. The exponent form doesn’t really do it justice – writing it out in full is 425,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, a number so magnificently big I don’t even have a proper name for it. It’s far bigger than the number of grains of sand on Earth (around 7.5 x 10^18, apparently).

Anyway, why is this relevant? Well, while big numbers are inherently cool (ok, to somepeople, I admit), it’s because the solution – the application of clever techniques to drastically reduce the problem space so that it can be robustly tested – is evidence of the thought, care and attention to detail that’s going into getting the WhisperClaims software platform right. After all, when we’re supplying thousands of software-generated-and-tested R&D reports for accountants and R&D tax specialists across the country, and doing so in a completely automated way, there has to be some pretty slick maths and Computer Science underneath all that nice, colourful UI/UX.

So when you generate your next WhisperClaims R&D report, please take a moment to consider that it is one of 4.25 billionty squillion, and just like you, it’s pretty special 🙂

The costs of producing a R&D tax relief claim – and why you might be too small

As a former founder of an established R&D tax relief consultancy, I’m perhaps more familiar than most with the costs of preparing a claim for R&D tax relief. Actually, since “preparing a claim” can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, I should say that these costs were just the ones I had to consider – clearly there are lots of ways to skin a cat. (Please don’t skin any cats.)

The first issue, as with many companies, was finding good staff. Finding someone with good academic qualifications, industry experience and strong communication skills could easily set you back £45k, with employment taxes and pension costs taking that closer to £50k. Once you add in the costs of recruitment, providing that person with IT equipment, an office to work in and after allocating a share of the sales and marketing cost, you’re probably at around £75k, easily. Next up to consider is training – while your shiny new employee is getting up to speed, you’re probably not going to see much of a return on your investment. So, let’s throw another £25k into the pot for that, taking us to a nice, even £100k.

Next let’s consider the costs of engaging with clients (that’s clients, people who’ve signed with you, not prospects – let’s ignore for now the steadily rising cost of acquiring new R&D clients in an ever more competitive landscape). As a former consultant, I was all too aware that my clients were busy people and that their R&D tax relief claim was rarely a priority…until just before the deadline, when often it became their top priority. Mostly, however, getting and holding the attention of busy stakeholders was difficult, which meant that claims could take weeks – or more often months – to prepare and get approved. Time is money, as they say, and time spent waiting was money wasted.

The third big expense to consider was the opportunity cost of doing business with a particular client and working on a particular claim. If we accepted a company and their claim was small, our fees were smaller than if we’d spent our time working for another company with a larger claim. That means that consultants, at least those working on a contingent basis, tend to screen their clients for potential claim size before offering them a contract. And guess what, that screening takes judgement, a risk assessment and more communication with the prospect – all of which burns yet more money, I mean, time.

All of this means that there’s a natural ceiling on the number of claims that a consultancy company can prepare (they only have so much time), and a lower threshold on the size of claims that they’re prepared to take on (with high costs to cover, they’re judging you against what they might get elsewhere). This means that if you don’t have a particularly large company, or are deemed to have a ‘complex’ claim (perhaps involving grants, intricate corporate structure or are backed by a number of different investors), you might find that it’s hard to get help on a contingent basis – you’re just considered to be too much of a risk.

Now, if you’re an accountant who prepares claims, or a specialist R&D tax credit consultant, you might be nodding along ruefully at this point and wishing there was a better way. And yes, I’d agree, all the characteristics of traditional R&D consultancy mean that a large part of the market is currently being under-serviced, with lots of potentially valuable innovation going unrewarded in UK SMEs.

So why don’t we do something about that, together? With your clients, your brand and our technology? Why don’t we help more companies make more claims, support more UK innovation, help you get more clients and reduce your costs of delivery in the process? After all, wouldn’t it be nice to never have to tell someone that they’re too small again?

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